INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAI‘I: How Big a Role Will Solar Play in Hawai‘i’s Goals: Clean Energy Future?

HAWAII HAS SET AMBITIOUS GOALS BY 2045, WE WILL TRANSITION FROM BEING THE MOST OIL DEPENDENT STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO USING ALL CLEAN ENERGY RENEWABLES FOR PRODUCING ELECTRICITY. THOUGH HAWAII RANKS FIRST FOR RESIDENTIAL SOLAR PER CAPITA. INSTALLATION RATES HAS DRAMATICALLY DECLINED SINCE THE 2012 PEAK ALONG WITH WIND, HYDRO, GEOTHERMAL AND BIOFUELS. WHAT ROLE WILL SOLAR PLAY IN HAWAII'S SOLAR FUTURE.THIS LIVE BROADCAST AND LIVESTREAM ON INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII STARTS NOW. DARYL: ALOHA AND WELCOME TO INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII. I'M DARYL HUFF WITH HAWAII NEWS NOW. FROM 2007 TO 2013, SOLAR CAPACITY IN HAWAI'I NEARLY DOUBLED ANNUALLY. SINCE 2013, GROWTH HAS SLOWED CONSIDERABLY DUE MOSTLY TO THE END OF NET METERING, WHICH CREDITED CUSTOMERS THE FULL RETAIL RATE FOR THE ELECTRICITY THEY SENT TO THE GRID. TODAY SOLAR IS THE STATE'S LARGEST RENEWABLE SOURCE OF ELECTRICITY AND STILL GROWING.

.. THIS WEEK, HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC ANNOUNCED IT WILL PURCHASE POWER FROM WHAT COULD BECOME THE STATE'S LARGEST SOLAR FACILITY LOCATED ON THE NORTH SHORE OF OAHU. THE SOLAR INDUSTRY IS STILL HOPING THE LEGISLATURE WILL RESTORE MORE INCENTIVES FOR CONSUMER SOLAR. NEARLY 24% OF THE STATE'S ELECTRICITY COMES FROM RENEWABLE RESOURCES. THE STATE'S OFFICIAL GOAL IS TO REACH 100% BY 2045. WHAT ROLE WILL SOLAR TECHNOLOGY PLAY IN HELPING HAWAII REACH THAT ENERGY INDEPENDENCE? WE LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR PARTICIPATION IN TONIGHT'S SHOW. YOU CAN EMAIL, CALL OR TWEET YOUR QUESTIONS. AND YOU'LL FIND A LIVE STREAM OF THIS PROGRAM AT PBSHAWAII.ORG. BEFORE I INTRODUCE OUR GUESTS, I WANT TO MENTION THAT WE INVITED A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION TO PARTICIPATE, BUT THEY DECLINED DUE TO PENDING DOCKETS THEY WOULD BE UNABLE TO DISCUSS. WE ALSO INVITED THE STATE'S DIVISION OF CONSUMER ADVOCACY, BUT THEY WERE UNABLE TO SEND A REPRESENTATIVE. NOW, TO OUR GUESTS.

RICHARD "RICK" REED IS THE PRESIDENT OF HAWAII SOLAR ENERGY ASSOCIATION, A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION COMPRISED OF INSTALLERS, DISTRIBUTORS, MANUFACTURES AND OTHER PROVIDERS OF SOLAR POWER. HE IS ALSO THE PRESIDENT OF THE SODARYLY CORPORATION IN HONOLULU AND A FOUNDING MEMBER OF THE HAWAIIAN RENEWABLE ENERGY ALLIANCE. JEFFREY ONO IS THE FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE HAWAI'I STATE DIVISION OF CONSUMER ADVOCACY. HE WAS INVOLVED IN THE DECISION TO END NET ENERGY METERING FOR NEW ROOFTOP SOLAR CUSTOMERS. HE IS CURRENTLY A PARTNER WITH WATANABE ING LAW FIRM, IN THE GOVERNMENT AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS GROUP. HERMINA "MINA" MORITA SERVED AS CHAIR OF THE HAWAII STATE PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION FROM 2011 TO 2015. PRIOR TO THAT, SHE REPRESENTED THE NORTH SHORE OF KAUAI IN THE STATE HOUSE FOR 14 YEARS WHERE SHE ALSO SERVED AS CHAIR OF THE ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION COMMITTEE. DR. JAMES "JAY" GRIFFIN IS A FACULTY MEMBER AT THE HAWAII NATURAL ENERGY INSTITUTE, AN INDEPENDENT RESEARCH UNIT AT THE UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I. HE HAS WORKED ON SEVERAL RESEARCH PROJECTS ANALYZING GRID INTEGRATION AND WILL BE LEADING RESEARCH INITIATIVES TO SUPPORT THE STATE'S CLEAN ENERGY GOALS. LET ME START WITH YOU.

WHAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF HAWAII'S ENERGY PORTFOLIO. WE TALKING ABOUT 20% RENEWABLE. WHAT IS WITHIN THAT BATCH? >> CURRENTLY MIX OF DIFFERENT THINGS. DISSECTED IT A LITTLE FURTHER, I THINK THE REPORT FROM THE HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC COMPANIES LAST YEAR WAS THEY REACHED 26% FOR THE COMBINED THREE COMPANIES THAT THEY OPERATE AND KAUAI REACHED 41% AND ANTICIPATES GETTING OVER 60% BY 2019. >> WE'RE NOT AT 24% ANY MORE. >> A LITTLE HIGHER FROM I THINK THOSE REPORTS JUST CAME IN PAST FEW WEEKS. SO WHEN YOU LOOK WITHIN, WELL, SO THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS MOST OF THE REMAINING GENERATION IS STILL OIL, FIRE, WITH SOME COAL LEFT ON THIS ISLAND. SEEN A LOT OF RAPID GROWTH IN DIFFERENT RENEWABLE SOURCES OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS IN PARTICULAR. A LOT OF GROWTH IN PARTICULARLY SOLAR, BOTH ROOFTOP SOLAR, UTILITY SCALE SOLAR, A NUMBER OF NEW DIFFERENT WIND PROJECTS ON THE ISLAND OF MAUI AND HERE, THEN IF WE LOOK AT PARTICULARLY THE BIG ISLAND HAS THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE RENEWABLES, LITTLE OVER 50%, FOR LAST YEAR, AND THEY HAVE A MIX OF GEOTHERMAL, HYDRO, SOLAR, WIND, AND SOME INTEREST IN BIOMASS PROJECTS THERE.

A SMALL MIX, SMALL PERCENTAGE ON EACH OF THE ISLANDS IS SOME BIOFUEL CONTRACTS WITH SOME LOCAL PROVIDERS. >> YOU WERE IN THE LEGISLATURE WHEN SOME OF THESE GOALS WERE DISCUSSED. AND AT PUC LATER ON. HOW ARE WE DOING? ARE WE DOING WELL, NOT SO WELL? COULD WE BE DOING BETTER IN THIS PROGRESS? >> WE'VE BEEN REALLY GOOD AT HARVESTING LOW HANGING FRUIT AND MOVING FORWARD. THERE ARE MORE RENEWABLE AND ESPECIALLY INTERMITTENT RESOURCES COMING ON LINE, IT IS GOING TO BE A REAL CHALLENGE GETTING TO HIGHER LEVELS ESPECIALLY AFTER 40%. >> WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES? >> INTEGRATION. TECHNICAL ISSUES, MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE GRID STABILITY, RELIABILITY. >> JEFFREY ONO FROM THE CONSUMER POINT OF VIEW, ARE WE DOING WELL? HAS THIS BEEN GOOD FOR CONSUMERS? HOW IS IT GOING IN THAT RESPECT? >> YEAH, WE'VE BEEN DOING GREAT. THE PRICE OF THESE PROJECTS, RENEWABLE ENERGY PROJECTS HAVE BEEN COMING DOWN VERY DRAMATICALLY.

SOMETHING THAT I WASN'T SEEING WHEN I FIRST TOOK MY POSITION BACK IN 2011. WE WERE SEEING VERY HIGH POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENTS FROM RENEWABLE ENERGY DEVELOPERS AND THEY'VE BEEN CUT IN ALMOST HALF. VERY SUCCESSEL. >> WHAT IS THE FACTOR CUTTING THEM IN HALF. MAYBE THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION FOR PROFESSOR GREEN. >> TECHNOLOGY. INDUSTRIAL SCALING OF THE INDUSTRIES. CHINA, GERMANY, OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD, HAVE REALLY AGGRESSIVELY GONE AFTER RENEWABLE TECHNOLOGIES, PLANS TO BUILD THOSE SOLAR PANELS AND THE OTHER COMPONENTS. SO THE COST OF THE TECHNOLOGY HAS COME DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY. I THINK THE COMMERCIAL SOPHISTICATION OF THE COMPANIES INVOLVED AND INCREASINGLY THE PEOPLE ENTERING THOSE AGREEMENTS HERE, I THINK, A LITTLE MORE. YOU LOOK AT THE CONTRACTS THAT WERE APPROVED EVEN FIVE YEARS AGO, JEFF IS RIGHT, COST HAS COME DOWN AT LEAST IN HALF, AND IT'S REALLY COMBINATION OF ALL OF THOSE FACTORS.

GROWING EXPERIENCE AND SOPHISTICATION HERE LOCALLY, IN ABILITY TO NEGOTIATE AND ENTER INTO THOSE CONTRACTS. >> BY THE ELECTRIC COMPANIES DOING THE NEGOTIATING? >> ALL THE PARTIES. THOSE PARTIES BUT ALSO, IT'S A COMPLEX MIX YOU HAVE. LANDOWNERS THAT ARE EITHER SELLING OR LEASING THEIR LAND. ALL OF THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE INVOLVED IN DEVELOPING THE PROJECTS, THE LABOR, SO I THINK IT'S THE WHOLE MIX OF FACTORS AND PEOPLE GET MORE EXPERIENCED BUILDING THEM, THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT, I MEAN, HOW MUCH COSTS NEED TO COME DOWN AND PEOPLE HOLD THE LINE ON, I MEAN, GENERALLY WANTED TO KEEP SEEING THOSE COST COME DOWN AND THERE'S OTHER ABILITY TO COMPARE TO THE BENCHMARKS OF PROJECT IT'S BUILT ON THE MAINLAND I THINK IS ANOTHER FACTOR THAT WE HAVE HERE. MORE EXPERIENCE THROUGHOUT THE WORLD AND PARTICULARLY IN THE U.S. >> RICK REED WITH THE SOLAR ENERGY ASSOCIATION.

ALL OF THIS GREAT NEWS EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THAT HASN'T REALLY BEEN THE CASE OF YOUR INDUSTRY. CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHAT THE LAST THREE OR FOUR YEARS HAVE BEEN LIKE FOR YOUR INDUSTRY, WHICH PRIMARILY IS PROVIDING ROOFTOP SOLAR? >> WELL, DURING THE PERIOD WHEN WE HAD NET ENERGY METERING, WHICH ALLOWED THIS RETAIL TRANSACTION BETWEEN THE HOMEOWNER AND THE UTILITY, WE HAD VERY CONSISTENT, VERY STEADY GROWTH. >> DESCRIBE THAT FOR A CONSUMER. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IF YOU HAVE NET METERING AGREEMENT. >> BASICALLY, IT WOULD PUT SOLAR ENERGY SYSTEM ON YOUR HOME AND YOU WOULD, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE ELECTRONS GENERATED BY HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC. YOU ALSO GENERATED ELECTRONS, SORT OF A TRANSFER. ARRANGEMENT WAS MADE MINA WAS THERE WHEN WE DID THIS LEGISLATION, MOVED FROM TRUING UP EVERY MONTH TO AN ANNUAL TRUE-UP. SORT OF SIZED THE SYSTEMS FOR THEIR ANNUAL, SUNSHINING AND DIFFERENCES IN SOLAR INSULATION FROM MONTH-TO-MONTH.

THAT SORT OF THING. YOU TRUED UP ANNUALLY. AT THE END THAT HAVE PERIOD, IF YOU SOLD ANY POWER, NOT SOLD, THAT'S THE WRONG. GENERATED ANY POWER IN EXCESS THAT YOU USED, UTILITY GOT THOSE ELECTRONS FOR FREE. >> I HEARD THAT TRANSACTION DESCRIBED. OUT OF DISCLOSURE, I AM THE OWNER OF A SOLAR SYSTEM THAT WAS A NET METERING ARRANGEMENT. I HEARD IT DESCRIBED AS BEING THE AS WE SAID, INTRODUCTION, BASICALLY THE ELECTRIC COMPANY IS PAYING YOU THE EQUIVALENT OF A RETAIL PRICE OF FOR YOUR POWER. SO IF THE CURRENT KILOWATT HOUR RATE IS 28 CENTS OR 29 CENTS, THAT'S WHAT I'M SELLING POWER TO THE ELECTRIC COMPANY. IS THAT A FAIR DESCRIPTION OF HOW IT WORKS? >> YOU'RE NOT SELLING IT. IT'S NOT A BUY AND SELL ARRANGEMENT.

YES, YOU ARE ACCREDITED AT FULL RETAIL. IT WAS VERY ADVANTAGEOUS TO THE HOMEOWNERS TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT. >> WHAT KIND OF COST WAS IT? HOW FAST WERE PEOPLE PAYING OFF THE SYSTEMS TO THE POINT ALMOST GETTING FREE POWER? >> THAT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE COST. ALL OVER THE MAP AND SIZE OF THE SYSTEMS. AND YOUR CONSUMPTION. BOTH USAGE AND COST OF THE SYSTEM THAT WOULD DETERMINE HOW LONG IT TOOK YOU TO ACTUALLY AMORTIZE THIS. THERE WAS A STATE 35% TAX CREDIT THAT WE'VE HAD FOR SOME TIME. 2008, 2000 OF, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ENACTED 36% CREDIT THAT THEY MADE EXTENDED FOR EIGHT YEARS. 2008, EXTENDED AGAIN 2016. SO 65% WAS PAID FOR BY THE FEDERAL AND STATE GOVERNMENTS. >> PLUS THE NET METERING. JEFFREY ONO FROM THE FORMER CONSUMER ADVOCATE.

WHAT WAS YOUR OPINION ABOUT THE WAY NET METERING WORKED? WAS APPROPRIATE OR HAVE TO END AT SOME POINT? >> IT WAS APPROPRIATE THAT IT ENDED. PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE ENDED SOONER THAN IT DID. THE WHOLE PURPOSE BEHIND NET ENERGY METERING WAS TO HELP KICK START THE INDUSTRY TO REWARD THE EARLY ADOPTERS, PEOPLE WHO WOULD PUT ROOFTOP SOLAR ON THEIR SYSTEM. MINA WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN HAVING THAT LAW PASSED. BUT BY GIVING A CREDIT AT FULL RETAIL RATE, IT MEANT THAT CUSTOMERS WHO WERE GETTING NET ENERGY METERING WEREN'T GETTING THEIR FULL SHARE OF THE FIXED COSTS. THEY WEREN'T PAYING FOR TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION FOR THE HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC SYSTEM. THAT FUNDAMENTALLY WAS NOT FAIR TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT GET AND WOULD NEVER GET ROOFTOP SOLAR. >> SO THE WHAT WAS YOUR VISION WHEN THIS FIRST WENT IN PLACE? HOW LONG IT WOULD LAST? >> THE LAW WAS PASSED IN 2001.

IT WAS EARLY ADOPTION STRATEGY TO PROMOTE, WITH THE RENEWABLE PORTFOLIO STANDARD, A FLOOR TO JUMP START THE INDUSTRY. AND IN THE LAW, THERE WAS ALWAYS A CAP, AND THERE WAS AND EXPECTATION OF PERIODIC REVIEW TO LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF THE SYSTEM. >> THE CAP, NOW THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT, I REMEMBER IT WAS LIKE 20% OR SOMETHING? >> NO. .5% OR SYSTEM PEAK. >> WHICH HAS NO RELEVANCE. >> JAMES "JAY" GRIFFIN, WHAT WAS THE IMPACT OF THE NET METERING ON THE HAWAII SOLAR INDUSTRY, NOT SO MUCH FROM THE DOLLARS AND CENTS AT THE RETAIL LEVEL, BUT IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON THE GRID OVERALL? >> SURE. WELL, I MEAN, YOU SAID IN THE BEGINNING, UNDER PARTICULARLY FROM 2008 TO 2012, INDUSTRY WAS DOUBLING AMOUNT INSTALL SYSTEMS WAS DOUBLING EVERY YEAR. I THINK AS RICK POINTED OUT, THE MODE OF OPERATION WAS THE SIZE OF THE SYSTEM FOR THE CUSTOMERS ROUGHLY THEIR ANNUAL ENERGY BILL. SO FOR THOSE CONSUMERS GONE DURING THE DAY, YOU'RE SENDING A LOT OF POWER OUT ON TO THE GRID. PARTICULARLY, FOCUSED WITHIN PEAK SOLAR HOURS. 4 OR 5 HOURS OF THE DAY. SMALL LEVELS, I THINK, THE IDEA IS THE GRID HAS LOTS OF CAPACITY TO HANDLE THAT.

AT THE SCALE THAT WE SEE IN PROGRAM GREW TO, IS WHEN YOU START TO SEE, IMPACTS ON THE OVERALL OPERATIONS OF THE GRID AS WELL AS LOCALIZED IMPACTS ON THE ABILITY OF THE LOCAL INFRASTRUCTURE OR NEIGHBORHOOD TO HANDLE ALL OF THAT SOLAR POWER AT THE SAME TIME. >> WHAT WAS THE IMPACT WHEN THAT — SOUNDS LIKE EVERYBODY HERE IS SAYING THAT IT WAS MEANT TO BE LIMITED. NO ONE SHOULD HAVE EXPECTED THIS TO LAST FOREVER. WHAT WAS THE REAL IMPACT WHEN IT WENT AWAY BECAUSE IT DID GO AWAY PRETTY SUDDENLY. WELL, THE COMMISSION, IN THEIR WISDOM,. >> PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION? >> YES. ALLOWED FOR ALL OF THE FOLKS THAT WERE IN THE, WHEN WE CALL NET METERING TO INSTALL SYSTEMS OVER TIME. IN THAT CASE, INDUSTRY BREATHING ROOM LASTED ABOUT A YEAR, MAYBE AS MUCH AS 18 MONTHS, I THINK WE STILL HAVE A FEW RESIDUAL FOLKS WORKING THEIR WAY THROUGH THAT QUEUE.

HAD THEY NOT DONE THAT WHICH I BELIEVE WAS THE CASE IN NEVADA, WOULD HAVE PUT AND END TO THINGS. >> IT WASN'T LIKE A CLIP. IF YOU GOT YOUR PERMIT. THAT WAS THE INTENDED PURPOSE. COMMISSION WAS WISE IN DOING THAT. ADOPTED SUCCESSOR TARIFFS, WITH ONE BASICALLY ALLOWED YOU TO EXPORT ENERGY AT A LOWER RATE. >> NEW DEAL. >> TWO NEW DEALS. ONE NONEXPORT SYSTEM THAT WOULD HAVE UTILIZED NONEXPORT STORAGE. >> OFF THE GRID? DIDN'T HAVE TO BE OFFED GRIT. TECHNICAL DISCUSSION THAT WOULD RATHER NOT HAVE WHAT IT MEANS TO BE INTERCONNECTED. >> I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR VIEWERS CAN FOLLOW. >> MEANS YOU CONSUME ALL THE POWER IN YOUR HOME RATHER THAN SENDING IT HOME. >> STILL BE CONNECTED TO THE GRID. >> SORT OF PROTECTED BY THAT CONNECTION BUT TRYING TO BE COMPLETELY INDEPENDENT? >> USING IT ON SITE.

YOU'RE NOT EXPORTING ANY OF THE ENERGY THAT'S PRODUCED ON YOUR ROOFTOP OUT TO THE GRID. >> I THINK THAT OUR VIEWERS APPRECIATING MY IGNORANCE BECAUSE THIS IS REALLY A GOOD EXPLANATION. GO AHEAD. >> I THINK IN TERMS OF SOLAR WATER HEATING SYSTEM OR ENERGY EFFICIENCY, IT'S ALMOST THE SAME THING. YOUR OBJECTIVE WITH BATTERY STORAGE SYSTEM TO REALLY REDUCE YOUR LOADS AND SINCE EXPORT IS NOT POSSIBLE ANY MORE, THAT'S THE GAME THAT WE'VE GOT. >> DO YOU FEEL AFTER THE OTHER COMMENTS WE'VE HAD, THAT IT WAS AS DEVASTATING AS IT WAS, TO THE INDUSTRY, I MEAN, THERE WAS A LOT OF ACTIVITY, NOW IT'S WAY DOWN. DO YOU FEEL THIS WAS SORT OF INEVITABLE AND NOW WE'RE IN THIS PERIOD OF ADJUSTMENT? >> I THINK IT WAS INEVITABLE. WE'RE OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN AND SOMETIMES LOSE SIGHT OF THE FACT THAT 50 OTHER STATES ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME ISSUES. AND THE SAME CHALLENGES AND WHEREVER NET METERING REALLY GAINED A LOT OF TRACTION, THOSE COMMISSIONS AND REGULATORS ARE FACING EXACTLY THE SAME SET OF ISSUES AND CHALLENGES AND PROBLEMS.

WHAT TO DO WITH SOMETIMES IS EXCESS POWER DURING ANY GIVEN TIME OF THE DAY. THAT'S LED INTO THIS ENTIRE STORAGE DISCUSSION BECAUSE THERE'S LOTS OF PARTS TO THE SOLAR INDUSTRY. WE TALKED ABOUT ROOFTOP SOLAR. WE HAVE MEMBERS THAT HAVE UNIONIZED, ELECTRIC CONTRACTORS THAT PUT IN UTILITIES SCALE PROJECTS. >> I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO THAT LITTLE BIT LATER IN THE SHOW WHEN WE TALK MORE TOWARD THE FUTURE. ONE OF THE POINTS THAT WE NEED IN THE INTRODUCTION WAS THAT I THINK HECO JUST AGREEMENT THAT THEY JUST SIGNED WITH THIS NEW SOLAR POWER GENERATOR IN CENTRAL OAHU OR THE NORTH SHORE IS LIKE, WELL, 11, 12 CENTS A KILOWATT HOUR. SO THAT'S PRETTY SPECTACULAR. IS THIS AHEAD OF THE GAME? WHEN YOU SEE THAT, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON? >> WELL, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE FACING IS ROOFTOP SOLAR IS ONLY USED BY ABOUT 25% OF THE HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC CUSTOMERS.

AND SO YOU STILL HAVE SERVICES THAT YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE FOR 75% OF THE CUSTOMERS THROUGHOUT THE ISLAND. SO WITH UTILITY SCALE SOLAR, AT LEAST OTHER CUSTOMERS ARE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS ENERGY TRANSFORMATION, AND HOPEFULLY, RECEIVE SOME BENEFITS LIKE LITTLE BIT MORE STABLE PRICING. >> JEFFREY ONO ON THAT QUESTION, DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE ROOFTOP IS BASICALLY DONE ITS PART AND NOW, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A MUCH SLOWER GROWTH THERE AND MORE BIG INDUSTRIAL TYPE? I THINK WE'RE GOING TO STILL SEE ROOFTOP SOLAR. I THINK IT WILL BE AT A WHAT I WOULD CONSIDER MUCH MORE SUSTAINABLE GROWTH. IT WAS GROWING AT UNSUSTAINABLE LEVELS. AND I WANTED TO COMMENT ABOUT THE NRG CONTRACTS THAT YOU BROUGHT UP. >> NRG IS THE — >> INDEPENDENT POWER PRODUCER, DEVELOPER WHO ACTUALLY TOOK OVER THOSE PROJECTS.

COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, SUN EDISON HAD MISSED KEY MILESTONES IN FULFILLING THEIR OBLIGATION UNDER THEIR POWER PURCHASE AGREEMENT. AND THERE WAS A LOT OF KNEE-JERK REACTION IN THE PUBLIC THAT HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC WAS WRONG IN TERMINATING THE CONTRACTS WHEN IT DID. BUT IF YOU LOOK BACK AT SUN EDISON'S HISTORY AND WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, THEY WERE ON THE VERGE OF BANKRUPTCY. HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC I FELT HAD A LEGITIMATE CONCERN, LEGITIMATE REASONS TO TERMINATE THOSE CONTRACTS. AND WHAT THE END RESULT WAS SUN EDISON WENT THROUGH THE BANKRUPTCY, NRG PURCHASED THOSE PROJECTS FROM SUN EDISON IN THE BANKRUPTCY AND WE'VE GOT LOWER PRICE PROJECTS. HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC WAS SUCCESSFUL IN NEGOTIATING THOSE CONTRACTS DOWN FROM 13.5 CENTS TO 11.5 CENTS TO 10.5 CENTS. SO IT WAS A NET BENEFIT TO THE CONSUMERS. >> CALLER CALLING IN, KIND OF GOES TO SOME OF THE THINKING THAT WE HAD FIVE, TEN YEARS AGO ABOUT WHAT OUR FUTURE WAS COMPARED TO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY. AND THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE INTERISLAND CABLE INITIATIVE.

MINA, I THINK YOU'RE THE BEST ONE TO, DR. GRIFFIN AFTER THAT. WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THAT? IS IT NO LONGER NECESSARY? HAS IT BEEN COMPLETELY ECLIPSED BY THE IMPROVEMENTS IN TECHNOLOGY AND ECONOMICS OF OTHER SOURCES? >> HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC IS GOING THROUGH ITS PLANNING PROCESS RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S NOT A, I DON'T BELIEVE, DID THEY TAKE IT OUT OF THE PSIP? >> NO. IT'S BEEN — WELL, GO AHEAD. >> POWER SYSTEM IMPROVEMENT PLAN. SO IT DOESN'T PLAY A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN THE POWER SYSTEM IMPROVEMENT PLAN. >> I THINK THE QUESTION BECOMES, HAS THIS NEED FOR HUMUNGOUS WIND FARMS BEING PLUGGED TOGETHER TO THE ISLAND, IS THAT STILL THERE? IS THERE STILL A REASON TO HAVE INTERISLAND CABLES? >> I THINK THE PROPOSAL ITSELF HAS GONE THROUGH VERY ITERATIONS.

GENERALLY COMPARED TO THE FIRST ROUND OF THIS OR LOOKING AT BUILDING PROJECTS ON MOLOKAI AND LANAI, THERE'S NO, I MEAN, THE COMMERCIAL INTEREST THAT WERE INVOLVED IN THAT ARE NO LONGER ACTUALLY FOR LONGER HERE IN THE STATE. AT LEAST FOR FIRST WIND. SO THAT THEN WOULD, THERE WAS A CONSIDERATION TYING MAUI ISLAND TO OAHU, AND SOME OF THE FIRST ROUNDS OF THAT PLANNING, HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC SAID IT WASN'T NECESSARY TO MEET THE LOWER 40% GOAL THAT THE STATE HAD. AND THEN IN THE MOST RECENT ROUND OF PLANNING, LONGER TERM QUESTION NOW, IS IT POSSIBLY NECESSARY TO REACH THE 100% LEVEL. I THINK THE QUESTION HAS BEEN PUT OFF INTO THE FUTURE AT LEAST FOR NOW, THROUGH THE VARIOUS PLANNING PROCESSES THAT THEY HAVE GOING. >> SO BASICALLY, KIND OF THE MONEY ISN'T THERE RIGHT NOW FOR THAT KIND OF INVESTMENT? >> I MEAN,. >> URGENCY ISN'T THERE? >> I MEAN, THE COMPANIES THAT WERE CONSIDERING THAT IN THE PAST FEW YEARS ARE, I MEAN, IT'S JUST NOT A PROJECT THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE IMMEDIATE TERM.

>> RICK REED, BACK TO THE ROOFTOP SOLAR. WHAT IS THE CONDITION OF YOUR INDUSTRY RIGHT NOW? >> I'M TRYING TO PUT A SMILEY FACE ON THIS TO THE EXTENT POSSIBLE. THIS WAS A CONTRACTION HAD BEEN PLANNING FOR. SOME COMPANIES ARE BUILT FOR GROWTH AND EXPANSION AND SOME BUILT FOR THAT AND HARD TIMES. FOLKS BUILT FOR THE LONG HAUL, BEEN THROUGH IT BEFORE, SOMETHING SIMILAR TO THIS, THEY'RE SCALED AND THOSE THAT ARE SCALED AND DIVERSIFIED ARE FINDING SOME SUCCESS. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF PARTS TO THE SOLAR PIECE. IT'S NOT JUST THE ROOFTOP PIECE. THERE'S ALSO SOMETHING CALLED STANDARD INTERCONNECTION WHERE YOU SEE COMMERCIAL FACILITIES THAT HAVE REALLY, REALLY LARGE LOADS WHERE NO MATTER HOW MANY PANELS YOU PUT ON THE ROOF, JUST NEVER GOING TO EXPORT ANY POWER. STILL A FAIRLY ROBUST MARKET. SOME OF THE MARKET PARTICIPANTS ARE DOING WELL IN THAT SPACE. >> USE IT TO REDUCE. >> ANY KIND OF MANAGEMENT SYSTEM OR THE LIKE. IF I MIGHT FOR A SECOND IF THAT ANSWERS THE QUESTION, GO BACK TO THE CABLE PIECE.

I THINK IT'S THE HOPE PROBABLY OF SOME REGULATORS AND POLICYMAKERS THAT THIS WHOLE BUSINESS OF DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES, WHICH IS NOT JUST DGPV. IT'S STORAGE. LOTS OF STORAGE. WATER HEATING IS STORAGE. >> DGPV IS? >> DISTRIBUTED GENERATION PHOTOVOLTAICS. >> ROOFTOP SOLAR? YES. THIS WHOLE PIECE, THERE'S LOTS OF IT, INCLUDING STORAGE AND ROOFTOP. PV. >> THE IMPROVEMENT IN STORAGE TECHNOLOGY MUST BE REALLY SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE EXCITED ABOUT? >> VERY MUCH. I MEAN, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH IT, WITH THE MOTIVE PIECE OF IT, AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY, THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF PRODUCTION BUILT IN THE PAST FIVE OR SIX YEARS, ALL OVER THE WORLD. IT'S NOT JUST THE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, TESLA FACTORY. THERE'S A LOT OF FACT TRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD. 40% PROTECTION. YOU SEE HUGE PRICE CUTTING. SEE PRICES COME DOWN, 40, 50, 60%. IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOME OF THE CAR MANUFACTURES THAT ARE IN THE GAME AND WHO'S NOT, I MEAN, EVERYONE IS TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. BMW, MERCEDES, A LOT OF THEM ARE MAKING STORAGE, PART OF THEIR ENERGY PORTFOLIO OUTSIDE OF THEIR CAR BUSINESS. A LOT OF HOPE FOR CONTINUED DECLINES IN THE PRICE OF ENERGY STORAGE.

AND THERE'S A LOT OF MONEY IN THAT SPACE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE WORKING ON IT. >> LET ME ASK. DR. GRIFFIN. WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN STORAGE CAPABILITY AND THE DIFFERENT POSSIBLE MIXES OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY? I UNDERSTAND WIND IS INTERMITTENT. SOLAR IS INTERMITTENT. IS THIS THE KEY TO ACTUALLY THE FUTURE OF ALTERNATIVE ENERGY? RENEWABLE ENERGY? CAPABILITY OF STORAGE? I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE KEY PIECES THAT, WHAT USUAL SEEN IS REALLY RAPID DECLINE IN THE INTERMITTENT SOURCES, COST OF THE WIND AND SOLAR, AND THEN ONCE YOU ADD ENOUGH OF THOSE PROJECTS INTO EACH ONE OF THESE ISLANDS, YOU START NEEDING NEW TOOLS TO HELP INTEGRATE AND BALANCE OUT THE VARIABILITY. IT'S A MIX OF THINGS. IT'S MODIFICATIONS TO THE EXISTING GENERATION PLANTS, BUT STORAGE HAS BEEN, HAS BEEN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE A HUGE ONE, BOTH FOR THE UTILITIES SCALE HOW YOU HELP THE OVERALL GRID OPERATE BUT ALSO, IN THE CUSTOMER SIDE. >> FOR THE ROOFTOP FOLKS, I MEAN, SOME OF THESE ARE HUGE.

GREAT BIG INTERMITTENT PLACES LIKE THE WIND FARM. I WAS READING THAT MAUI HAS MORE PER CAPITA STORAGE THAN ANYPLACE IN THE COUNTRY. OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BECAUSE AT THE WIND FARMS, STORING FOR. IF PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT PUTTING THE SOLAR ON THEIR HOUSE WITH A BATTERY, HOW IS THAT PENCILING OUT? DOES THAT STILL NEED SOME KIND OF INCENTIVIZE THAT? WERE WHY WOULD YOU INCENTIVIZE? HOW DO YOU SEE INCENTIVES GOING AHEAD. WHAT ARE YOU HOPING FOR. >> STILL AND EXPENSIVE PROPOSITION. AGAIN, PUTTING THE BEST FACE ON IT, IT ADDS COST TO THE PV PLUS STORAGE IS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN JUST NET METER PV THAT'S A FACT OF LIFE. >> YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET NET METER PV. >> YOU'RE NOT. NOT NET METERED. NOT NET METERED BUT STILL ALLOWED TO EXPORT. PUT HAWAIIAN INTO THE MIX, STILL AND OPPORTUNITY TO EXPORT AT A LOWER LEVEL. IN TERMS OF THE STORAGE PIECE, THERE'S A LOT OF PLAYERS AND YET IT'S STILL A VERY EXPENSIVE PROPOSITION.

I THINK THE POPULARITY OF SOLAR IS GOING TO HAPPEN. I THINK SOLAR ITSELF IS EXTREMELY POPULAR. IT ADDS CONSUMER CHOICE. PUT IN A LARGE PROJECT, UTILITY SCALE PROJECT, BLESS THEIR HEARTS, OVERALL, GOING TO KEEP RATES FROM, GOING TO GO UP MORE GRADUALLY THAN THEY WOULD OTHERWISE. ALSO INSULATES US FROM WILD SHOCKS THAT SORT OF THING. CHECK YOUR ELECTRIC BILL NEXT TIME A LARGE PLANT GOES ON SCALE. REAL WAY OUT OF THIS THING FOR A LOT OF CONSUMERS IS TO BE ABLE TO GENERATE SOME OR ALL OF YOUR OWN POWER ON SITE. WHETHER YOU EXPORT IT OR NOT. AND IT'S JUST THE SAME AS REALLY A LOT OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY. IN A NONEXPORT MARKET. STORAGE IS CRITICAL TO THAT AND STORAGE IS EXPENSIVE. SO I THINK THE LEGISLATURE IS TAKING A HARD LOOK AND OTHER POLICY FOLKS, AT WHETHER OR NOT IF YOU HAVE A TAX CREDIT THAT JUST INCENTS BUT CAN'T EXPORT PV, MAYBE JUST THAT I CAN TAKE THAT OFF THE TABLE AND PROVIDE INCENTIVE FOR STORAGE WHICH I THINK SEEMS TO BE A FUTURE THAT WE ALL PRETTY MUCH AGREE UPON IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE. >> JEFF, I CAN SEE. >> I BELIEVE IN STORAGE. THERE'S SOME INCREDIBLE THINGS GOING ON IN BATTERY TECHNOLOGY.

YOU KNOW, SOLID STATE BATTERY. IT MIGHT BE THE BREAK THROUGH THAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR THAT DOESN'T USE LITHIUM. IT USE SODIUM INSTEAD. BUT THE PROBLEM WITH PROVIDING THESE KIND OF INCENTIVES LIKE THE PROPOSAL THAT I'VE SEEN TO USE THE GREEN ENERGY MONETIZED SECURITIZATION FUND AS A REBATE FOR CUSTOMERS WHO INSTALL BATTERIES, IT DISPORTS THE MARKET. THE MARKET OFTEN DECIDES WHICH TECHNOLOGY SHOULD PREVAIL. AND RICK IS RIGHT. STORAGE IS NOT JUST BATTERIES. IT'S WATER HEATERS, AIR CONDITIONERS. ANYTHING WE CAN USE THAT BASICALLY HEATS OR COOLS, CAN BE USED AS A STORAGE DEVICE. THOSE ARE UNDERUTILIZED TECHNOLOGIES RIGHT NOW. >> DOES THAT MEAN — >> I HAD ONE THING. TALKING ABOUT STORAGE. I THINK PARTICULARLY WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SMALL SCALE DISTRIBUTED STUFF, KEY PIECE HERE, IT ADVANCES THAT ARE ALLOWING OR CONTINUING TO WILL ALLOW TO NETWORK THOSE DEVICES AND INTERFACE BETTER WITH THE UTILITY, SO COMBINATION OF BOTH THE DEVICES THEMSELVES BUT THE SMARTS THAT ARE GETTING BUILT IN AND HOW THEY INTERFACE WITH THE SYSTEM.

>> IS IT YOUR OPINION THAT THE MARKET IS GOING TO PROVIDE FOR THIS OR DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF INCENTIVES EITHER AT THE RETAIL LEVEL, GRASSROOTS LEVEL? >> THE MARKET SHOWED WE SHOULD ALLOW THE MARKET TO WORK RIGHT NOW, THERE'S SUBSIDIZATION ISSUES AND THERE'S A REAL, FOR ME, THERE'S A REAL CONCERN HOW RATE PAYOR MONIES AND PUBLIC MONIES ARE BEING USED TO SUBSIDIZE CUSTOMER SIDE IMPROVEMENTS RATHER THAN THE GRID IMPROVEMENTS WHERE WE ALL BENEFIT FROM. >> EXPLAIN A LITTLE BIT MORE. AS I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, X AMOUNT OF MONEY YOU CAN USE TO MANIPULATE THE MARKET. >> WE HAVE A SMALL POT OF MONEY THAT WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN HOW WE USE IT. FOR YEARS, WE'VE BEEN SPENDING MONEY ON THE CUSTOMER'S SIDE OF THE METER FOR THE INDIVIDUAL BENEFIT. WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS POT OF MONEY AND HOW WE CAN MAKE SYSTEM WIDE IMPROVEMENTS WHERE EVERYBODY BENEFITS.

GRID MODERNIZATION. >> HE WAS TALKING ABOUT, MAKING IT SMOOTHER. I WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE, RICK REED FROM THE SOLAR ASSOCIATION, I MEAN, ONE MORE PITCH FOR INCENTIVES AT THAT CONSUMER LEVEL. >> I MADE MY PITCH. (LAUGHTER). >> LEGISLATORS IN CONFERENCE DISCUSSING A WAY THEY WOULD DO THAT. JEFF'S POINT, I'M A LITTLE CONFLICTED WHETHER WE SHOULD USE THIS GEMS MONEY THAT I THINK — >> GEMS MONEY COMES BASICALLY FROM A TAX ON OUR ELECTRIC BILLS, BIG FUND, $150 MILLION OR SO THAT'S KIND OF JUST BEEN SITTING THERE. >> YEAH. THAT'S PROBABLY WHY PEOPLE FELT THAT THIS MIGHT BE A BETTER USE FOR THOSE FUNDS. YOU KNOW, IT'S INTENDED PURPOSE WAS REALLY FOR HARD TO REACH COMMUNITIES AND FOLKS WHO COULDN'T OTHERWISE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THE CONVENTIONAL LEASING OPPORTUNITIES AND IT SEEMED LIKE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME.

BUT FEW THINGS HAVE HAPPENED. ADMINISTRATIVELY RATHER COMPLICATED. I THINK MORE IMPORTANTLY, CAME LONG AT EXACTLY THE SAME TIME THAT YOU COULDN'T EXPORT ENERGY ANY MORE. >> LET ME MAKE ONE MORE ARGUMENT ON THIS. WHEN YOU USE GEMS MONEY, BECAUSE IT'S A FEE THAT ALL RATEPAYORS PAY ON THEIR ELECTRIC — >> I USE THE WORD TAX. SURCHARGE. SURCHARGE, FEE, PUT ON EVERYONE'S BILL. THEN YOU GIVE IT AS A REBATE FOR BATTERIES, RIGHT NOW, PV PLUS BATTERIES, SOLAR SYSTEMS PLUS A BATTERY, STILL VERY EXPENSIVE. WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS YOU'RE TAKING RATE PAYOR MONEY AND GIVING IT TO THE WEALTHIEST CONSUMERS IN OUR STATE. I THINK THAT'S JUST FUNDAMENTALLY UNFAIR. >> LET ME GET SOME QUESTIONS HERE. I APOLOGIZE TO VIEWERS FOR NOT DOING THIS. GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE. I WANT TO DO A COUPLE OF QUESTION IT'S ON MORE IMMEDIATE.

CALLER WANTS TO GO OFF GRID AND WAS PLANNING TO PURCHASE SOLAR PANELS. METERING COST IS VERY EXPENSIVE. CAN THE STATE OFFER INCENTIVES TO ENCOURAGE MORE HOMEOWNERS TO GO SOLAR. >> I WAS BUSY TAKING NOTES. METERING COST IS VERY EXPENSIVE. I DON'T KNOW — >> COST OF METER ITSELF? >> METERING, METER COST IS VERY EXPENSIVE. I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. HE WANTS TO GO OFF GRID. >> AH. >> OKAY. WHY SHOULD I AS A TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZE SOMEBODY THAT WANTS TO GO OFF GRID? WHAT IS THE SOCIAL BENEFIT OF THAT? >> WHOLE ISSUE RAISES WHOLE ISSUE OF GOING OFF GRID. SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE ENCOURAGING. >> IF HE WANTS MAKE THAT INVESTMENT, HE SHOULD DO IT ON HIS OWN AND NOT RELY ON TAXPAYOR SUBSIDIES OR RATEPAYOR SUBSIDIES. >> HE'S GOING TO BE SUBSIDIZED BY LACK OF ELECTRIC BILL? >> IT'S HIS CHOICE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF OFFGRID? ARE THERE CONCERNS ABOUT A LOT OF PEOPLE GOING OFF THE GRID. >> WE HEARD HORROR STORIES ABOUT THE DEATH SPIRAL OF THE UTILITIES IF GETS TO THE POINT WHERE PEOPLE CAN GO OFF GRID AND DO BETTER. IS THAT A REAL RISK? >> YEAH, I THINK, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BEFORE THE SHOW STARTED. RICK SAID HE'S BEEN IN THIS BUSINESS FOR A LONG TIME AND GENERALLY ENCOURAGES PEOPLE NOT TO GO OFF GRID. SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT TO BEING INTERCONNECTED TO THAT NETWORK, SIGNIFICANT COSTS TO GOING OFF GRID. IT'S ALWAYS A CHOICE PEOPLE HAVE. BY AND LARGE, VERY FEW PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EXERCISING THAT CHOICE. I THINK I MEAN THE WHOLE VISION HERE IS THAT THIS IS A INTERCONNECTED SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE BROADER BENEFIT FROM STAYING ON RATHER THAN DISCONNECTING. >> THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE ARE FIXED COSTS THAT ARE SHARED BY EVERYONE. AND TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION FIXED COSTS DON'T NECESSARILY GO DOWN BY THE SAME AMOUNT BY ONE PERSON LEAVING THE GRID.

WHAT YOU END UP WITH IS ONE LESS RATEPAYOR, ONE LESS CONSUMER TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARD THOSE FIXED COST. IT'S BAD FOR EVERYONE. EVERYONE WHO IS LEFT BEHIND. >> GO BACK TO POINT MADE EARLIER. I LIKE BASIC FACT THAT THE BILL, IT'S CALLED HP 1593, IN CONFERENCE RIGHT NOW, IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BENEFIT THE WEALTHIEST PARTICIPANTS IN THE PROGRAM BECAUSE IT MEANS TESTED AND TRIED, ORIGINAL PURPOSES OF THE GEMS FUND TO GET TO THE HARDER TO REACH COMMUNITIES AND FOLKS THAT WERE DISADVANTAGED. YOU GET MORE REBATE HE THE LOWER YOUR ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME. >> I DO WANT TO KEEP GOING WITH SOME OF THESE VIEWER QUESTIONS. THIS IS KIND OF ON THE OFF GRID QUESTION. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE TO TAKE A SMALL COMMUNITY IN HAWAII AS A PILOT PROJECT AND INTRODUCE ALL SUSTAINABLE OPTION, THEN USE THE RESULTS TO INFORM THE REST OF THE STATE? ANYBODY? >> COUPLE PLACES THAT HAVE TRIED THAT, RIGHT? COMPLETELY OFF GRID COMMUNITIES? >> MILOLI'I. DID WE LEARN MUCH FROM THAT? SOUNDS LIKE WHAT YOU FOLKS ARE SAYING THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY GOOD TO HAVE SOMEBODY OFF THE GRID EVEN IF IT'S A COMMUNITY.

>> I THINK IT'S A CHOICE. A LOT OF FOLKS, TO THIS DAY, WANTED TO LIVE IN HAWAII AND CHOSE LIVING IN A LAVA FIELD BECAUSE IT WAS THE CHEAPEST LAND THAT THEY COULD FIND. TIN ROOF AND BIG CATCHMENT TANK AND BOUGHT SOME PV PANELS AND GAS REFRIGERATOR OR HAD A LITTLE PROPANE SOLAR WATER HEATING SYSTEM AND THAT WAS THE WAY THEY CHOSE TO LIVE THEIR LIVES. I THINK THAT IF YOU'RE FAR AWAY FROM TELEPHONE POLES, THAT'S YOUR DESIRE, MORE POWER TO YOU. IF YOU'RE ACTUALLY PRESENTLY INTERCONNECTED, I THINK, THIS IS THE ONCE AND FUTURE ISSUE, WE NEED TO WORK THROUGH JUST HOW ALL OF US INTERACT HERE WHERE THERE'S A LOT OF DJ ON THE SYSTEM, PEOPLE WANT DJ, PEOPLE WANT ENERGY STORAGE, WHERE UTILITY SCALE PLAYS ITS ROLE. AND I ALSO, AGREE WITH MINA. WE'VE GOT ABOUT 50%, THINGS GET MORE INTERESTING.

HOLTON CHANG. SENIOR VP AT HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC RECENTLY SAID THE PROBLEM ON OAHU IS GOING TO BE WHERE DO YOU FIND THE GENERATION RESOURCES? ONCE YOU GET ABOVE 50. THEN IT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE ALL OF THE WAREHOUSES AND ROOFTOPS AND EVERYTHING AND STORAGE. JUST GOING TO NEED ALL OF THIS TO GET THE 100% ESPECIALLY ON THIS ISLAND. >> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DESCRIBE, JEFF, JEFFREY ONO, FORMER CONSUMER ADVOCATE, WHAT IS THE 100% UNDERSTANDING GOAL, WHAT DOES THAT REALLY MEAN FOR ELECTRICITY? I'VE BEEN TOLD DOESN'T REALLY MEAN IT'S 100%. IN LAYMAN'S TERMS, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO GET TO BY 2045? >> TRYING TO GET RIGHT NOW, THE WAY THE LAW IS WRITTEN, 100% OF ELECTRICITY SALES IS GOING TO BE DELIVERED WITH RENEWABLE ENERGY. WHAT IT MEANS, THE LOOPHOLE THAT PEOPLE KEEP POINTING TO IS THAT BECAUSE IT'S MEASURED BY ELECTRICITY SALES, IF SOMEONE GENERATES ELECTRICITY WITH SAY DIESEL GENERATOR, DISTRIBUTED GENERATOR, THAT WOULDN'T COUNT TOWARDS THE 100% RENEWABLE ENERGY. SO YOU COULD DO THAT.

YOU COULD DO COMBINED HEAT AND POWER UNIT. BUT RIGHT NOW, IF WE WANT TO HAVE RELIABLE SECURE SYSTEM, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FOSSIL GENERATION FOR A LONG TIME TO COME. >> COULD YOU COMMENT ON THAT? SO THE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND, I MEAN, ARE WE ABLE TO GET TO 100% RENEWABLES BY THAT TIME? >> PUT IT THIS WAY. HOW MUCH DO YOU WANT TO PAY FOR IT? IT'S A COST ISSUE. >> THERE'S A COUPLE OF ISSUES. ONE, THINK PARTICULARLY WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH TECHNOLOGY IMPROVEMENT, PARTICULARLY ON THE NEIGHBOR ISLANDS, WHERE THEY'RE REALLY RICH IN RENEWABLE RESOURCES, SMALLER POPULATION, WE CAN GET TO REALLY HIGH PERCENTAGES. KAUAI IS REALLY BEEN LEADING THE WAY IN THE PAST FEW YEARS. SO I MEAN, TRAJECTORY IS GOING RIGHT ALONG WITH TECHNOLOGY AND ECONOMICS. IT'S THE LAST 5%, 10%, 20%, WE DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHAT IT IS. WHERE IT GETS TO BE MORE DIFFICULT. WE'VE GIVEN OURSELF ENOUGH TIME.

I THINK THE TRAJECTORY IN THE NEXT TEN, 15 YEARS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISPLACE A LOT OF THE OIL WE'RE USING NOW COST-EFFECTIVELY WITH THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE. THERE'S STILL ALL OF ISSUES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE IN PLAY. I THINK THE WAY I LOOK AT IT, THE TIDE OF TECHNOLOGY AND ECONOMICS IS GOING ALONG WITH PUBLIC POLICY HERE. SO WE'RE DOING THE RIGHT THING FOR THIS TIME FRAME AND AS WE GET OUT TO THAT POINT IN THE FUTURE, WHERE IT GETS HARDER, WE'LL MAKE THOSE DECISIONS WHEN WE COME TO IT. >> I HAVE A CALLER. INQUIRING ABOUT PLANS TO PUT SOLAR PLANS ON SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES, LIGHTS AND AIR CONDITIONING ARE USED REGULARLY. WHAT ARE THE PANELISTS THOUGHTS? WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT COSTS ARE WE WILLING TO PAY, TALK ABOUT PUBLIC FACILITIES ADDING SOLER AND STUFF, IT'S LESS ABOUT SAVING MONEY ABOUT ADDING TO THE CAPACITY OF RENEWABLES.

>> THINGS LIKE SCHOOLS, THESE ARE ALL DAYTIME USES. HERE, WE'RE HAVING ALL OF THIS SOLAR BEING GENERATED AND NO DEMAND FOR IT. SO WOULDN'T IT BE BETTER TO LOOK AT HOW WE PRICE ELECTRICITY WHERE SCHOOLS, PUBLIC BUILDINGS, WHICH ARE DAYTIME OPERATED, GET A BREAK, THEY DON'T HAVE TO GENERATE, BUT THEY CAN USE ELECTRICITY BEING GENERATED FROM OTHER PLACES. >> QUESTION HERE ALONG THE LINES OF THIS EXCESS PV PRODUCTION. I HEARD A LOT ABOUT HOW BIG A CHALLENGE THAT IS. THAT IS, IF YOU COULD FIND A WAY TO CAPTURE ALL THAT HAVE ENERGY BEING GENERATED, AT THE PEAK, COULD PRETTY MUCH TAKE CARE OF THE REST OF THE DAY. IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION? LET ME READ THE QUESTION. TO KEEP SOLAR COMPANIES VIABLE, HOW ABOUT USING EXCESS PV PRODUCTION TO PRODUCE HYDROGEN TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM OF STORING ELECTRICITY TO USE HYDROGEN FUNDS INFRASTRUCTURE? ARE THERE FEDERAL FUNDS OFFSET IT? IDEAS TO TAKE THAT EXCESS POWER OFF THE GRID, REUSE IT LATER, STORAGE, I MEAN, IS THAT A VIABLE IDEA? HYDROGEN? >> SO THAT WE HAVE VERY ACTIVE RESEARCH PROGRAM AT HNEI LOOKING AT THIS EXACT TOPIC. DOING SOME OF THE DIFFERENT DEMONSTRATION PROJECTS RIGHT NOW TO PROVE OUT ALL OF THOSE CONCEPTS.

I THINK DEFINITELY PART OF HOW WE LOOK AT PARTICULARLY, IF YOU CAN USE THAT HYDROGEN NOT ONLY FOR CREATING ELECTRICITY, BUT FOR OTHER TYPES PURPOSES, TRANSPORTATION, ALSO LOOKED AT USING IT FOR FUEL TO MAKE FERTILIZER. IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHOLE RANGE OF BYPRODUCTS, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE'RE LOOKING INTO. BUT I THINK THE GENERAL IDEA IS BASICALLY, HOW DO WE FIND BETTER WAYS TO ALIGN THE SUPPLY TO THE DEMAND AND THERE'S TWO PIECES TO IT. STORAGE IS GOING TO HELP YOU SHIFT THE SUPPLY INTO THE TIMES THAT YOU NEED IT. FORMER CHAIR MORITA SAID, NEWER TYPES OF PRICING PROGRAMS THAT GIVE PEOPLE BETTER PRICING TO USE MORE ELECTRICITY IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY. PRETTY NOVEL CONCEPT COMPARED TO THE PAST WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO USE MORE ELECTRICITY AT NIGHT. DIFFICULT TO DO. NOW WE HAVE A SURPLUS AND WHEN ENERGY SHOULD BE GETTING CHEAPER IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY.

THOSE ARE ALL PARTS OF THE MIX OF REFORMS THAT ARE GOING TO HELP ALL OF THESE PIECES FIT TOGETHER. >> GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGY FOR STORAGE OR FOR NEW GENERATION THAT'S NOT AS INTERMITTENT. QUESTION HERE. DOES THE GOVERNOR'S RENEWABLE ENERGY COMMITTEE, IS THERE SUCH A THING AS A GOVERNOR'S RENEWABLE? ANYWAY, IS OCEAN THERMAL ENERGY CONVERSION IN THE MIX? ANOTHER ONE. WHERE IS THE WATER MOVING WATER UPHILL, FOR STORAGE OPTION IN CONVERSATION. AND I'M WONDERING. I'VE HEARD OF THE IDEA, SUBSIDIZE PEOPLE TO CHARGE CARS IN THE DAYTIME INSTEAD OF AT NIGHT. I CHARGE MINE AT NIGHT BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE ANYPLACE TO PLUG IT DURING THE DAY. WHAT ARE THE MOST PROMISING TECHNOLOGIES THAT ARE NEAR TERM THAT, SAY, IN THE NEXT TEN OR 15 OR 20 YEARS THAT ARE GOING TO BE COMING IN? ANY THOUGHTS? >> I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LOOK FOR PANACEAS RIGHT NOW IN TRYING TO SAY, THERE'S NO PANACEA, I'M SORRY TO TELL YOU. BUT YOU KNOW, REALLY HAVE TO DO A WHOLE HOST OF THINGS, VARIETY OF THINGS TO GET US WHERE WE NEED TO GO.

AND HOW DO WE DO THAT WITH LEAST AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND GETTING THE MOST EFFICIENCY PRODUCTIVITY FROM THOSE KINDS OF INVESTMENTS. AND UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE BEEN SO FOCUSED ON THE GENERATION SIDE, WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT THE ECONOMICS OF MOVING FORWARD, THE WHEN IS THE RIGHT TIME TO INVEST IN CERTAIN TECHNOLOGIES. YOU KNOW, HOW TO MAKE THE — >> ISN'T THE PROBLEM THOUGH THAT PEOPLE WANT ALL OF THIS TO HAPPEN WITHOUT THEM HAVING TO CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR? THEY JUST WANT TO HAVE THE SAME LIFESTYLE THEY ALWAYS HAD? >> YEAH. SMART GUY. WHAT PEOPLE REALLY WANT FROM THEIR UTILITY IS HOT SHOWERS AND COLD BEER. THEY WANT ENERGY SERVICES. THEY DON'T GIVE A RIP ABOUT MOST OF THIS STUFF. >> WHEN THEY WANT IT. >> WHEN THEY WANT IT. EXACTLY. AND THEY WENT IT AT A REALLY INEXPENSIVE PRICE. WISH IT WR THAT SIMPLE. >> COULD YOU THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR, WE'VE SEEN TIME AND TIME AGAIN, CRISIS IS PREDICTED, CRISIS GOES AWAY WHEN SOME TECHNOLOGY JUMPS UP AND TAKES CARE OF IT. >> PEOPLE WILL CHASE THEIR BEHAVIOR IF THE PRICE SIGNALS ARE RIGHT, IF THEY'RE COMPENSATED FOR IT. WE TALK ABOUT DEMAND, RESPONSE.

WHICH IS A FORM OF, TO ME, IT'S A FORM OF YOU'RE ACCEPTING LESS RELIABILITY. YOUR AIR CONDITIONING GETS TURNED OFF FOR AND HOUR IN THE EVENING. WATER HEATER WILL GET TURNED OFF FOR AND HOUR. >> OUTSIDE MY HOUSE. >> SOMEBODY OUTSIDE OF YOUR HOUSE. YOU GET PAID FOR IT. >> I THINK THE NEXT, THAT'S VERY — THAT'S HOW THAT SET OF TECHNOLOGY WORKED IN THE PAST. WHAT YOU'RE SEEING MORE, LOT MORE AUTOMATION IN THE DEVICES THEMSELVES AND INTELLIGENCE. >> TALKING ABOUT SMART METERS? IS THAT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. >> TALKING ABOUT SMART DEVICES, SMART HOMES. DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUILDING AUTOMATION, THAT CAN TALK TO ALL OF THESE DEVICES AND RECEIVE SIGNAL FROM THE UTILITY, WHETHER IT'S A PRICE SIGNAL OR DIRECT CONTROL SIGNAL. EMITS EXACT WORK GOING ON RIGHT NOW WENT UTILITY AND REGULATORY STRUCTURE TO HELP SET UP ALL THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT ARE NECESSARY SO THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT INCENTIVES TO THEN INSTALL IN THOSE TECHNOLOGIES IN THEIR HOME AND THEIR BUSINESS.

>> SO IS THAT WHERE THE NEXT PLACE YOU'RE INDUSTRY MAY GO, IS, OKAY, GANG, HERE IS A BUNCH OF STUFF TO PUT IN YOUR HOUSE. MAY NOT BE A SOLAR POWER OR BATTERY, BUT IT'S GOING TO HAVE THE EQUIVALENT EFFECT ON YOUR ELECTRIC BILL. >> I THINK SO. SOFTWARE REALLY CHANGES EVERYTHING. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE REALIZE ABOUT THE WHOLE BATTERY BIT. IT'S NOT JUST A BATTERY. NOT LIKE YOUR CAR BATTERY THAT IF YOU DID LIVE OFF GRID, USED TO BUY 12 OF THE THINGS AND CHARGE THEM UP. RED AND BLACK WIRES UP. AWAY YOU GO. NOW IT'S SYSTEM WITH AND ENERGY MANAGEMENT DEVICE. BASICALLY SOFTWARE. AND INTERCONNECTED TO THE INVERTER. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SMARTER AND SMARTER INVERTERS THAT CAN PROVIDE ALL SORTS OF SERVICES TO THE GRID POTENTIALLY AND HECO IS DEMANDING THOSE KIND OF SERVICES FROM THESE INVERTERS.

THOSE ONLY HALF EQUATION. SMART SUITE OF SOFTWARE IS GOING TO NOT ONLY DEAL WITH YOUR BATTERY MANAGEMENT, AND YOUR LOAD, GOING TO DEAL WITH LOADS AND YOUR DEMAND INSIDE YOUR HOUSE. YOU WILL TURN THINGS OFF AND DOWN. IT'S GOING TO DO ALL OF THIS STUFF AND WE'VE BEEN THROUGH SMART HOMES AND ALL SORTS OF ITERATIONS OF THIS FOR ABOUT 25 YEARS. WE'RE NOW TO THE POINT WHERE THE SOFTWARE IS REALLY TAKING OFF AND ALL OF THE STUFF BECOMES MUCH MORE FEASIBLE, MUCH MORE COST-EFFECTIVE THAN IT WAS IN THE PAST. >> GETTING A LOT OF CALLERS WHO ARE ASKING ABOUT DIFFERENT KINDS OF PV OR ELECTRICAL GENERATING STUFF. ROOF TIMES, PAINTS, COVERINGS. A LOT OF PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT GENERATING ELECTRICITY ON THEIR HOMES. SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S NOT THE NUMBER ONE TECHNOLOGY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, BUT THERE'S ALSO SORT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE LONGTERM LIKE WHAT IS THE FAITH OF THE INSTALLED ELECTRICAL GENERATION, IF THEY'RE ABANDONED, WHO ABSORBS THE COST? >> IF THEY'RE INDEPENDENT POWER PRODUCERS, THEIR CONTRACT ENDS, THEY ABSORB THE COST.

IF IT'S OWNED BY THE UTILITY, THEN THERE'S THE POTENTIAL FOR WHAT THEY CALL STRANDED ASSETS. STRANDED INVESTMENT. THEN THE UTILITY IS GOING TO LOOK TO THE RATEPAYOR TO PAY FOR THAT. >> IS THAT WHY THERE IS SO MUCH SCRUTINY EVERY TIME THEY WANT TO BUILD ANYTHING THAT'S NOT RENEWABLE? >> THAT'S ONE REASON. >> ANY MAJOR INVESTMENT, UTILITY IS LOOKED AT WITH SCRUTINY WITH THE POTENTIAL OF STRANDED COST. >> WE HAVEN'T TALKED ON THIS SUBJECT AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER OUR AUDIENCE CAN TOLERATE IT. VERY BRIEFLY. I MEAN, THERE'S TALK ABOUT OUR UTILITIES BECOMING MORE OF DISTRIBUTION SYSTEMS INSTEAD OF GENERATION SYSTEMS. IS THAT SORT OF A BIG WATERSHED CHANGE IN THE WAY WE LOOK AT OUR UTILITIES? >> BEFORE, IT WAS KIND LIKE A PIPELINE. GENERATE ELECTRICITY AND DELIVER IT SOMEWHERE. YOU'RE LOOKING AT UTILITIES EVOLVING TO BECOME A PLATFORM, SO A FACILITATOR OF VARIOUS KINDS OF TRANSACTIONS. >> ANOTHER CALLER ASKS, IF A WHOLE BUNCH OF MY FRIENDS AND I GO OFF THE GRID, CUSTOMERS FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE AND THEY ALL DISCONNECT FROM THE GRID, WHAT IS THE FUTURE FOR ESPECIALLY MAUI ELECTRIC SPECIFICALLY, BUT FOR UTILITIES? IS THIS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN GRADUALLY, IF IT GOES TOO FAST, THERE'S ACTUALLY A RISK TO RATEPAYORS AND UTILITIES AS ORGANIZATIONS, AS COMPANIES? >> WELL, 40 AND 50% IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN? >> WELL, I MEAN, IF THAT DID HAPPEN, THEN THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.

BUT THE QUESTION, I MEAN, — >> LET ME CLEAR IT UP. IF 40 TO 50% OF THE HOUSES IN AND AREA WENT OFF THE GRID, THAT WOULD BE A SERIOUS PROBLEM. >> SO RESIDENTIAL, RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS ROUGHLY. >> ADDING BATTERY STORAGE TO GO 6 TO TEN DAYS WITHOUT THE GRID, 40 TO 50% OF THE CUSTOMERS FOLLOW THAT EXAMPLE. THINK HE'S TRYING TO COME AT REAL WORLD CHALLENGE TO HOW MUCH INDEPENDENTLY LIVING, OFF GRID, ALMOST KIND OF PEOPLE THERE ARE. CAN THIS GO TOO QUICKLY AND DAMAGE, CAUSE DAMAGE? >> I MEAN, THERE'S A CERTAIN POINT THAT IF YOU LOSE ENOUGH OF YOUR SALES, REVENUE, UTILITIES IS IN SERIOUS PROBLEM. WITH THAT EXACT TIPPING POINT, I DON'T THINK ANYONE FULLY CALCULATED. WHEN YOU'RE TALKING 40, 50% THAT'S HUGE. YOU'VE GOT TO, THAT OPTION IS AVAILABLE TODAY. SO EVEN THOSE THAT HAVE INSTALLED ALL OF THESE DEVICE ALMOST ALWAYS STAY GRID-CONNECTED.

>> WHAT THEY HAVE TO ASK THEMSELVES, ARE THEY PREPARED TO MAKE INVESTMENTS NECESSARY TO HAVE REDUNDANCY. >> THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YOU CAN DO THAT TODAY AND BY AND LARGE, VERY FEW PEOPLE DO. THE QUESTION IS, ARE THESE TECHNOLOGIES GET THAT MUCH CHEAPER. THAT'S I THINK THAT'S THE POINT PUT OUT BY A LOT OF PEOPLE. I THINK THE PROACTIVE WAY TO LOOK AT THIS IS, TRYING TO DIRECT THE UTILITY TO A PLACE WHERE THERE'S A LOT MORE VALUE IN THESE CUSTOMERS STAYING CONNECTED BUT STILL HAVING THE CHOICES AVAILABLE TO THEM AND NOT IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T PUT OTHER COSTS ON THE OTHER CUSTOMERS. >> QUESTION FROM KONA VIEWER. WHERE DOES CONSERVATION FIT IN THIS ARGUMENT? WHEN I STARTED TO DO THIS, WORKING ACTUALLY FOR THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY MANY YEARS AGO HERE, THERE WAS WHAT WE CALL THE LOADING ORDER. YOU RECOMMENDED THINGS BE DONE IN A CERTAIN SEQUENCE THAT YOUR LIGHTING, PAINT YOUR ROOF WHITE, THAT SORT OF PUTTING SOLAR WATER HEATING SYSTEM. WAY BEFORE PV WAS COST-EFFECTIVE. YOU IT THINGS IN A CERTAIN ORDER.

I THINK ALSO, BOTH HECO AND KIUC TALK ABOUT RIGHT SIZE PV SYSTEMS. LITTLE BIT SMALLER AND THAT SORT OF THING. ONE WAY TO MAKE THAT POSSIBLE IS IF YOU THINK OF THIS IS A BUCKET WITH HOLES IN IT, POURING MORE WATER IN IT WHICH BIGGER PV SYSTEM THAN YOU NEED. IT'S NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO THINGS. PLUG THE HOLES. PLUG THE HOLES OF ENERGY EFFICIENCY, MAKE SURE YOU'VE GOT UP-TO-DATE APPLIANCES. THERE IS A COST THERE. BUYING MORE GENERATION THAN YOU NEED. SO IT'S STILL A COMBINATION UF EFFICIENCY. AND THIS IS A PLUG FOR HAWAIIAN ENERGY. THEY NEED IT BECAUSE THEY DO GREAT WORK AND IT'S NECESSARY WORK. IF YOU DO ALL OF THIS STUFF, LESS EXPENSIVE THINGS FIRST. PUT A RIGHT-SIZE PV SYSTEM ON YOUR HOUSE. YOU'RE IN A BETTER POSITION OVERALL. THAT COUPLE MINUTES LEFT. IF I COULD GO AROUND WITH EVERYBODY. ARE YOU VERY OPTIMISTIC ABOUT OUR ENERGY FUTURE IN HAWAII? WERE YOU GOING TO BE MUCH BETTER OFF IN THE 30 OR SO YEARS WHEN WE REACH THESE GOALS THAN WE ARE NOW.

>> MY ANSWER IS ABSOLUTELY. WE ALSO DON'T HAVE MUCH CHOICE IN THE SENSE THAT, BUT I AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE TECHNOLOGY AND ECONOMICS ALIGNED WITH THE PUBLIC SENTIMENT HERE. WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO IN WORKING OUT THE DETAILS. TRANSITION ALL PARTY SIDE. UTILITY IS GOING TO HAVE TO OPERATE DIFFERENTLY. LOOKING TO SET UP MARKETS TO PROVIDE A LOT OF THESE SERVICES RATHER THAN KIND OF THE OLDER PROGRAMS THAT WE'VE HAD. A LOT OF WORK. >> YOU'VE BEEN CRUSADING ON THIS FOR MANY, YEARS. WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ABOUT THE FUTURE NOW? >> I LIVE ON KAUAI AND MEMBER OF KAUAI ISLAND UTILITY COOPERATIVE, AND I REALLY PROUD OF THE DIRECTION THAT THE UTILITY IS GOING AND I THINK THAT SERVES AS AN EXAMPLE STATE AND WORLD WHAT CAN HAPPEN. >> JEFFREY ONO? >> I'M OPTIMISTIC. >> CONSUMERS? >> FOR CONSUMERS. IT'S GOING TO TAKE EVERYONE WORKING TOGETHER. IT'S NOT ALWAYS HAWAIIAN ELECTRIC'S FAULT WHEN THINGS GO WRONG.

DEVELOPERS HAVE TO DELIVER PROJECTS ON TIME AND ON BUDGET. ONLY THEN WILL WE HAVE TRULY SUCCESSFUL RENEWABLE ENERGY FUTURE. >> RICHARD "RICK" REED, TO CLOSE THIS, ABOUT TEN OR 15 SECONDS. EVEN WITH WHAT YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH, ARE YOU EXCITED ABOUT THE FUTURE. >> I AM. I'LL PUT IN A PLUG FOR KIUC. THINK THAT UTILITY HAS DONE AND ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC JOB IN MAINTAINING A MIX BETWEEN DISTRIBUTED GENERATION AND UTILITIES PROJECT. >> THANKS VERY MUCH. OUT OF TIME. I WANT TO THANK ALL OF OUR VIEWERS FOR JOINING US TONIGHT AND THANK YOU TO OUR GUESTS. RICK REED FROM THE HAWAII SOLAR ENERGY ASSOCIATION. MINA MORITA FORMER PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION CHAIR. JEFFREY ONO FORMER CONSUMER ADVOCATE AND JEFF GRIFFIN HAWAII NATIONAL INSTITUTE. MILLENIALS ARE TOLD THEY'LL HAVE TO WORK 7 YEARS LONGER OR SAVE TWICE AS MUCH AS PARENTS TO ENJOY COMFORTABLE RETIREMENT.

START OUT WITH SO MANY CHALLENGES INCLUDING UNCERTAIN FUTURES OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE. WHAT KIND OF ADVICE WILL MILLENIALS RECEIVE FROM FROM PEOPLE. CHALLENGE THESE FACE. I'M HOW HAVES. FROM INSIGHTS ON PBS HAWAII. A HUI HO..